Panasonic RX-CS700 - faulty FM Stereo Reception

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MyOhMy

Member (SA)
A further update:

This evening, I've left the radio playing in another room tuned to a strong signal (88.8FM) where the reception is mono and there is no stereo indicator light on. I monitor the reception periodically and it will suddenly revert to stereo output with the stereo indicator light lit. This will last no more than 2 minutes (so far) before reverting back to mono with the indicator light going out. Most of the time (80%+) the signal remains mono.

It's very late here in UK so I plan to leave the radio on overnight and see how things are in the morning.
 

BoomboxLover48

Boomus Fidelis
MyOhMy said:
A further update:

This evening, I've left the radio playing in another room tuned to a strong signal (88.8FM) where the reception is mono and there is no stereo indicator light on. I monitor the reception periodically and it will suddenly revert to stereo output with the stereo indicator light lit. This will last no more than 2 minutes (so far) before reverting back to mono with the indicator light going out. Most of the time (80%+) the signal remains mono.

It's very late here in UK so I plan to leave the radio on overnight and see how things are in the morning.
Pull the antenna all the way out and rotate it. :w00t: :lol: :lol:

That Charles is not supporting FM radios.
 

Superduper

Moderator
Staff member
MyOhMy said:
https://vimeo.com/151254172

*Could you briefly explain 'IC's' to me, please? It sounds like a very precise soldering job you've mentioned? I do have a couple of old donor boards I'm happy to practice on to see if my skills are up to the job.
IC's are monolithic semiconductors that typically looks like flat rectangular shaped centipedes. The acronym is for Integrated Circuits and a simple description is that they are tiny circuit boards populated with electronic components and circuitry, then encased in an epoxy shell with leads protruding for wiring them up. In addition to far lower cost than making up the same circuits individually, they are packaged this way to allow the repetitive use of the same circuits in different applications. In any event, after your updated description of when and how the stereo light comes on, it's pretty clear that the IC's are "probably" OK and that some adjustment is what you need. There are 2 possible adjustment scenarios.

#1, the stereo pilot signal adjustment is off and this is something that you can probably do yourself and is relatively safe in that misadjustment is not catastrophic and relatively easy to undo if you mess up. In this case, an onboard potentiometer needs to be rotated to the centerpoint of the range where the stereo light illuminates. If you have a service manual for this model, then you can leasily find which is the mpx stereo decoder and the associated stereo adjustment pot. Lacking the service manual, there is another way to find which pot this is, it's generally easiest to start by looking up the datasheets on the various IC's in your tuner board. Datasheets will usually tell you the purpose of that IC, such as AM/FM IF amplifier, MPX decoder, etc. Once you've figured out which IC is the MPX decoder, then the datasheet will usually provide a sample circuit. Luckily, you will find that most electronics manufacturers, with few exceptions, generally follow the sampe circuits very closely. In this case, search for the variable resistor in the circuit that corresponds to stereo, 19khz, pilot, etc. That is the pot to adjust. Do not adjust the one that is indicated for separation. It sounds hard, but it really isn't.

#2, IF frequency or Local Oscillators are out of adjustment or alignment. These aren't really DIY type of fixes due to that you will require a certain amount of rather expensive instruments to perform these, as well as a knowledgeable technician. Some folks have tried experimenting by messing with these adjustment points (and there are many when you get to this point and some require bending of the coil loops to accomplish) but I don't recommend it. IF we are speaking of AM, you might luck out since many AM adjustments simply require peaking and you can sorta of hear the difference but the FM adjustment is far more complicated and it's possible, likely even to throw the alignment out further, possilbly rendering the FM section almost useless.

#3, Band coverage. This adjustment is performed to ensure that the range (i.e. 88-108) is properly adjusted. When off, this is condition is typically evidenced by the stations not lining up to the proper spot on the dial. This adjustment is possible for the DIYer to perform if you have accesss to a FM signal generator. The reason you need the FM signal generator is that you need the generator to create the FM signal for the adjustment. Typically, you will have the generator output a signal at the specified frequency indicated in the service manual, usually a range extreme such as 88mhz, tune the tuner-dial to the same frequency then adjust at the specified locations until the tuner receives the tone outputted by the signal generator, then do the same for the other extreme such as 108mhz etc. and this procedure is repeated back and forth and repeated until no further improvements are evident. The reason is that each adjustment not only affects the reception at the current point but also has affect at other end of tuner dial too. By the way, an FM signal generator is not the same as an audio generator since it needs to output in the RF range.

This all probably sounds overwhelming and it's a science that is not easy to understand, and almost impossible to perform properly without access to proper instruments. My only recommendation to you is try to see if you can find the MPX decoder chip, perform the adjustment and see if that helps. Or take hi-res picture of the tuner circuit board and we will try to find that chip and the adjustment pot for you. For some reason, I couldn't find a service manual for the RX-CS700, but do have one for the RX-CS710 amd 780. Perhaps it's the same or different, not sure.
 

MyOhMy

Member (SA)
Soperduper, what can I say??? I can't thank you enough for your time and effort in posting this comprehensive reply and also for imparting such expertise in a manner I can understand with a little more concentration than usual. Many, many thanks indeed. :bow:

Yes, all you've written is new and unfamiliar to me but I'm darn sure I can put my best efforts into the work needed.

#1: All clear on this (or will be once reread!)

#2: Not having the instruments for this I feel this step will not be an option.

#3: An FM signal generator looks to be quite an expensive bit of kit so, if it's financially viable, I'd see if this could be carried out by an expert with his/her own generator. As the box cost me nothing, there's now a value to balance against the cost of expert work.


I do not have the service manual for this RX-CS700 but I do have one for my RX-CS800 so this may well be of help.

One thing I will do is print off and read over & over the info you've provided to use as a step-by-step guide as my memory won't allow me to remember all of the info in 'one big lump'.

I have to say again: I'm incredibly grateful to you for taking the time to write such a comprehensive reply, it's most generous of you.

Many, many thanks.

:yes: :thumbsup: :rock: :hooray:
 

Superduper

Moderator
Staff member
Expensive is relative, but for any boombox collector with large number of radios and with sufficient hunger to learn, it might be worth it to purchase one and some other appurtenant instruments to be able to play doctor on their collection.

There are a ton of instruments that one might need to be able to perform all the adjustment procedures typically prescribed in service manuals. Some aren't even common anymore since new radio designs don't need much adjustments like older gear, typically they either fail entirely or work perfectly.

As for buying old instruments, it could get overwhelming and some are junk or have such limited ability that you are going to collect 3 or 4 pieces just to get the combined ability of a single unit so all that needs to be considered. Also since the adjustment is only as good as the quality of the instrument used to perform the adjustment, units that are crude or out of calibration won't be much good. You should be able to trust your instruments, otherwise, it's a crapshoot. Is the erroneous readings due to bad tuner or bad tester? Can you trust the reading you get, or is the lack of a reading due to malfunctioned tuner or an insensitive instrument? Diagnosing the diagnoser won't be fun, trust me.

In short, instruments typically required for tuner work includes:
AM, FM RF Signal generator.
Stereo FM RF signal generator to diagnose MPX.
Marker generator (some sweep generators have this feature build in, most don't)
Sweep generator
Audio generator for general audio troubleshooting or to inject tone into the RF generators, if they don't have internally built in tone generators (most do).
Millivolt meter, although most good modern DMM's will suffice.
Oscilloscope (the more capable and the more modern, the easier the work).
Frequency counter (for MPX pilot signal adjustment).
 

MyOhMy

Member (SA)
I knew it, I just knew it :bang:

Only joking! :yes: :lol:

To be honest, it all looks very in depth from what you've just added although I really do appreciate your additional info as I feel much better informed. I'll do as much as I can from the info you previously provided then take it from there.

I think it's probably a bit late in the day for me to begin acquiring all manner of technical equipment along with the required knowledge although at least some simple test equipment, I now see, as being essential for the more routine aspects of BB maintenance.

When I mentioned value, the value isn't solely of a monetary nature, there is also value in learning new skills and, importantly, learning to respect the technology for what it is - no matter what it is. It's not 'just a radio/cassette of $$'s value.

Thank you once again for taking the time to be so very helpful.

:yes: :rock:
 

T-STER

Member (SA)
Very interesting read, we are so lucky to have access to such expert knowledge. Thanks Super, i know this post was to help Mom but i have just read this page 3 times and have bookmarked it to re-read, a lot to take in there!
 
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