Helix HX-4635 vs Conion C-100F with comparison to JVC RC-M70JW

[twoengine]

This is a review to help someone looking for these iconic boomboxes. It must be noted that the Conion C-100F I'm comparing is the Korean version.

First the sound: The Helix sounds better to me than the Conion. It has better bass, it's tighter and goes deeper. The Helix bass is pretty impressive. The mids and highs are about the same. The JVC has tight bass, but does not go as deep as either the Helix or Conion. The JVC has nice mids and highs. The JVC sounds a little better than the Helix and Conion. The JVC has a nice balanced, clean sound. The Helix and Conion lacks a little clarity, but are not far behind the JVC. The Helix and Conion has a wider soundstage and sound bigger than the JVC given that they are bigger boomboxes.

The loudness: The Helix goes much louder than the Conion and JVC. I'm too scared to turn the Helix up more than 20 volume for fear of blowing the speakers. It goes way louder than I listen to. Although the Conion and JVC has plenty of volume.

Conclusion: It's definitely worth getting the Japan made Helix HX-4635/Conion C-100F/Clairtone 7980 over the Korean made one. All 3 of these boomboxes look great, sound great and get loud for being vintage boomboxes. But I don't think the Helix, Conion, Clairtone are worth the money that it commands. Unless, you get lucky finding one at a garage sale, thrift store, etc. Money wise, the JVC is a relative bargain. It's an awesome boombox that costs a lot less than the Helix and Conion. Even though I think the Helix/Conion is over priced, there is nothing like a vintage boombox. It's just that for the money you can get a better sounding stereo.

Bottom line: I'm glad I got the Japan made Helix over the Korean made Conion. If you're not willing to spend the money on a Helix/Conion/Clairtone, then get a JVC RC-M70. You won't be disappointed with it for the money. Also, it's worth it to get the Japan made Helix/Conion/Claritone over the Korean made Conion, because it has the cool analog VU meters plus some other features that the Korean one does not have. I'm a big fan of analog VU meters on vintage equipment.

I hope this helps someone considering these iconic, holy grail vintage boomboxes.

 

[Reli]

For the money it costs to get a clean M70 off Ebay, I'd rather spend a few hundred extra to get the Conion. I can't believe what people pay for M70's. $400+ is what they get if they're clean, all-working and photographed well. No thanks. Sure, you could find a cheaper one on Craigslist or at the flea market, but the same is true for Conions as well.

 

[twoengine]

The price differential between a clean Conion C-100F and a clean JVC RC-M70JW is more than a few hundred dollars. If the Conion was only a few hundred more than the JVC then I would say it's worth it. My point was that if someone is not willing to spend that much on a Conion, the JVC is a more affordable option. Not everyone is able or willing to spend that much on a vintage boombox. But, both boomboxes are awesome.

 

[Superduper]

What kind of comparison is this? Firstly, the Helix is like the non-korean Conion, with same circuit topology. Dual amp chips sporting 4-amps total for 2-channels bridged. The Korean C100 has an entirely different circuit design with only a single amp module which I surmise is only 2-amps total. So yeah, you would expect the non-korean versions of the Conion and Helix to perform more robustly than the Korean one, after all, it's got 2 extra amps. Not everyone knows this of course so these two are fair game to compare to and the results would be of value to those contemplating the two.

As for the M70 however, it's a 22" box compared to a 30" box. 6" woofs compared to 8-inchers in a far more massive cabinet. Comparing them together is like saying my corvette is faster than my prius or my bus can outhaul my minivan. Did I mention that the M70 is only 22" wide compared to the C100/4635 at 30" wide? Instead, how about let's compare the wheely to a colby egg. The results might be interesting.

 

[twoengine]

I know it's comparing apples to oranges, but this review is directed to those that aren't necessarily boombox enthusiast's or collectors. There's a lot of options for vintage boomboxes at many different price points. Therefore, there is value in comparing them in this case. And I can only compare what I have to compare with. I don't have a wheely to compare. This review is not directed to the vintage boombox experts that know it all already.

 

[Superduper]

Gotcha. I have a habit of responding and saying the first things that comes to mind. In this case, while the comparo between the 2 biggies is useful, throwing the 1/2 pint in there to run against competitors twice the size was a head scratcher.

 

[gsbadbmr]

Not to start a war or anything...but in my experience the Clairtone 7980 is king of them all...ask Max (mmcodomino)...when he was at my place last month i whipped out the nastiest 7980 that will obliviate any C-100/Helix/Korean C-100...for real

 

[-GZ-]

Not to start a war or anything...but in my experience the Clairtone 7980 is king of them all...ask Max (mmcodomino)...when he was at my place last month i whipped out the nastiest 7980 that will obliviate any C-100/Helix/Korean C-100...for real

I won't argue that. Even before Caution went full blown mad scientist on mine it was insanely loud. But now its even louder!

 

[caution]

Not to start a war or anything...but in my experience the Clairtone 7980 is king of them all...ask Max (mmcodomino)...when he was at my place last month i whipped out the nastiest 7980 that will obliviate any C-100/Helix/Korean C-100...for real

Strange, because the 7980 has the same components as a Japanese C100F. Never seen a Helix so not sure about that one. I'm starting to wonder though about the surrounds on the woofers. Mine have noticeably less swing than others I've seen playing. Can they stiffen up over time? They're not foam, it's like a resin-soaked cloth or something.

 

[gsbadbmr]

I actually picked up another 7980 last week that is another powerhouse...most of my good 7980's are all loud...my Conion C-100's all seem to be less powerful for some reason Maybe our 7980's are better preserved here in Canada and used less so the amps are less abused...Canadian boxes hibernate all winter also

 

[Reli]

Someone should read the code on the amp chips to see if they're the same. Speakers too.

 

[Nickeccles]

LOL - JVC All the way, both the conion/clairtone models are Mickey Mouse & tiresome to listen to for more than 5 mins
I've said it before both here & S2Go, as an audio engineer of some 30 years - those 'Market' brands are all about 'perceived value' Some say they look nice (They Don't) Some say they 'sound' good LOL not a chance, they are a load of shite & pretty much worthless at least here in the UK that is the case................The brand name says enough ffs!!
Since when was Clairtone Conion Cap10 & it's other guises deemed to be worth a carrot???

My biggest problem with all those market stereo's is a completely mickey mouse tape mechanism (I won't even talk about the second tape 'deck') if you can call them that The stability of both decks is truly dreadful & painful to listen to strings or piano solo's for example.............laughable performers & I will never 'get' why anyone would think they are any good..........

Now the M70 is another fish in the kettle Even it's brother the RC-656L is a very decent performer, nice bouncy bass & sweet treble - in fact this model (also cloned as a Fergy model) sold in it's 1000's, a testament to how many good examples exist today Of course the M70 is even better...........Very pleasant & easy on the ears, I could listen to an M70 all day long (After booting the 'Market Jobs' off Beachy Head Lol) - Back in the early 90's we would delight in dismissing & consigning any such machines as junk & dispose of them! We had a hifi sales & repairs shop then & they were not welcome...............

As I say, I will never ever u/stand why any portable stereo lover would even think they are good, but Ces't La Vie

Some of you will understand my thoughts, some may not - If you knew how shite the build quality was, you would know what I am saying.............or been around in the early 80's when cheaper machines were still built up to a certain standard or made in Japan!!

These awful machines only really surfaced here in the early 90's when the end was nigh for our hobby - Should never have been allowed lol

 

[Reli]

Technically, ALL boomboxes sound like crap compared to a real home audio system. Nobody would collect them if sound quality was the most important thing.

Conion's might not be one of the best sounding models, but they are big and flashy as hell, and the look brings back memories. That's why they're popular. Plus, the music most people play on these things doesn't demand a lot of precision anyway.

 

[-GZ-]

Technically, ALL boomboxes sound like crap compared to a real home audio system. Nobody would collect them if sound quality was the most important thing.

Conion's might not be one of the best sounding models, but they are big and flashy as hell, and the look brings back memories. That's why they're popular. Plus, the music most people play on these things doesn't demand a lot of precision anyway.

What he said.

 

[Superduper]

Reli, I'm about 99% sure that the amp chips are the same. You simply just can't swap out an amp chip for another model... the differences between chips require a whole slew of circuitry and supporting component changes to work. Some of the more modern amp modules (from the same manufacturer) had upgraded performance in a pin-compatible package, but that's the exception rather than the rule. Typically speaking, equipment manufacturers will design a circuit around a chip. So if a boombox manufacturer decided to use a Hitachi HA1392 chip (for example), the Hitachi recommended test circuit is often religiously followed. In the case of Conion/Helix, they didn't follow Hitachi's recommended design since the test circuit in the official datasheet was only SE and not bridged. Pioneer also used the same chips installed in a bridged configuration in the SK-900, just like the Conion but without the double output caps that Conion used. In fact, Pioneers design is far more conventional in terms of how amps are typically bridged. I wonder if it's more than a coincidence that the Pioneers sound so clean and hifi compared to the Conion.

In any event, I digress. Back to the Conion/Helix power.... the difference is probably in the power supply. Almost all Canadian boxes I've seen are single voltage compared to USA spec'd ones which are multi-voltage capable. Or maybe as gsbmr says, perhaps the Canadian ones have less use. In any event, the basic circuits are the same and during testing, boxes are typically fed a steady 15v (on a 15v box). Therefore, on battery power, with circuits having the same amount of electronic wear/tear, they probably sound about identical. The amount of power observed when powered on mains however can vary greatly which is why when circuit troubleshooting using VR measurements, you should power the circuits using lab power supply or else the voltage measurements could be off. Check this... a Victor M70 probably sounds the hulk when compared to the JVC M70 which probably sounds more like a mini-hulk when both are powered on the same mains circuit. Why? Different power supplies and expectations of input voltage. This much I know... on the boomboxes where I have both Japan and USA versions, the Japan versions always sounds louder, with the volume control coming on stronger at a lower end of the volume control range. When cranked full, they also distort sooner too, so there's a limit to how much power these things can produce before distortion exceeds 10% anyhow. Unless you can live with 50% THD, the actual usable power probably won't be much different. Ok now I'm getting off topic. The difference is that the Japanese boxes "expected" 100v whereas the USA boxes expected 120v. Therefore, these 2 variations when exposed to the exact same mains voltages will have different output from the transformer.

Lastly, I think it's food for thought worth consideration, is that on multivoltage boxes, there is a voltage selector switch in line with the power circuit. I don't think there is a collector who owns a substantial number of boomboxes that haven't experienced at one time or another, an unreliable power problem attributed to poor oxidized connections at the AC switch that gets pushed in when a cord is inserted. Why not after 35 years, can't this switch introduce enough resistance to reduce enough power to be noticable when compared to another example that is direct wired without the switch? Because clairtone is a candian brand... is it single voltage only? Is the Helix? I don't own either so I wouldn't know. Think about it.

 

[trippy1313]

Not to start a war or anything...but in my experience the Clairtone 7980 is king of them all...ask Max (mmcodomino)...when he was at my place last month i whipped out the nastiest 7980 that will obliviate any C-100/Helix/Korean C-100...for real

I'd believe you over anybody on that. You are the king collector of these. Clairtone it is.

 

[SLO]

Technically, ALL boomboxes sound like crap compared to a real home audio system. Nobody would collect them if sound quality was the most important thing.

Conion's might not be one of the best sounding models, but they are big and flashy as hell, and the look brings back memories. That's why they're popular. Plus, the music most people play on these things doesn't demand a lot of precision anyway.

 

[gsbadbmr]

Norms detailed post are so descriptive and well written...yet i have to read them multiple times to understand anything...it must be my ADHD ...i'm not good with technical stuff

 

[caution]

The only difference between a Clairtone and a Japanese Conion is an extra antenna wire from the tuner board to the rear screws.
The transformers are both dual voltage. Most likely they were built in the same factory. Even the PCBs say Conion on them, although some have different revisions.

Almost forgot - there are a few parts missing on the Clairtone version but I have no way to know if those variations also exist in the Conions. A few 100uF caps on the amp circuit are missing and a number of components for the metal position of the tape type selector are also missing.

 

[Lasonic TRC-920]

Reli, I'm about 99% sure that the amp chips are the same. You simply just can't swap out an amp chip for another model... the differences between chips require a whole slew of circuitry and component changes to work. Some of the more modern amp modules (from the same manufacturer) had upgraded performance in a pin-compatible package, but that's the exception rather than the rule. Typically speaking, equipment manufacturers design a circuit around a chip. So if they decided to use a Hitachi HA1392 chip, the manufacturer recommended test circuit is often religiously followed. In the case of Conion/Helix, they didn't follow the manufacturers design since it the test circuit was only SE and not bridged. Pioneer also used the same chips installed in a bridged configuration in the SK-900, just like the Conion but without the double output caps that Conion used. In fact, Pioneers design is far more conventional in terms of how amps are typically bridged. I wonder if it's more than a coincidence that the Pioneers sound so clean and hifi compared to the Conion.

In any event, I digress. Back to the Conion/Helix power.... the difference is probably in the power supply. Almost all Canadian boxes I've seen are single voltage compared to USA spec'd ones which are multi-voltage capable. Or maybe as gsbmr says, perhaps the Canadian ones have less use. In any event, the basic circuits are the same and during testing, boxes are typically fed a steady 15v (on a 15v box). Therefore, on battery power, with circuits having the same amount of electronic wear/tear, they probably sound about identical. The amount of power observed when powered on mains however can vary greatly which is why when circuit troubleshooting using VR measurements, you should power the circuits using lab power supply or else the voltage measurements could be off. Check this... a Victor M70 probably sounds the hulk when compared to the JVC M70 which probably sounds more like a mini-hulk when both are powered on the same mains circuit. Why? Different power supplies and expectations of input voltage.

Lastly, I think it's food for thought worth consideration, is that on multivoltage boxes, there is a voltage selector switch in line with the power circuit. I don't think there is a collector who owns a substantial number of boomboxes that haven't experienced at one time or another, an unreliable power problem attributed to poor oxidized connections at the AC switch that gets pushed in when a cord is inserted. Why not after 35 years, can't this switch introduce enough resistance to reduce enough power to be noticable when compared to another example that is direct wired without the switch? Because clairtone is a candian brand... is it single voltage only? Is the Helix? I don't own either so I wouldn't know. Think about it.

Yep! Always good to read these....confirms suspicions, fills in blanks and scratches that itch. Thanks Norm.

In my experience 9/10 "won't work on batteries" issues is that cord switch. Just swapped out the whole plug assembly on a GF-777 that couldn't be rebuilt because it was so burnt.