Did I ruin my deck? please help

[koleloi]

Hi guys, as you may knew I did re-belt my National 4360 yesterday. Everything is fine after then except for the tape counter that cannot be reset. Early this morning I decided to have a look at it again to see if I could fix the counter too.

But horrible thing happened right at the time I remove the tape desk from the box: I found one spring felt off the ground.

Here it is:

My gut told me that something was wrong and I immediately put the desk back, connect to power and play. Well, nothing works: play, rewind, fast forward. The tape keys work normally but nothing spins

As I took some pictures of the outer of the desk from yesterday, I scan and suspect that the spring is maybe located inside the desk, not outside .

I'm really scared now. May anyone get in and help me please. I'd be greatly appreciated any help and hints. Thanks!

 

[Brutus442]

I'd take another look and see if a "C" clip is also loose in the box. It's possible that this was mounted to a gear axle and the clip had given up and the spring popped off.

Just MHO.

If you can, post some pics of the internals. It may help someone spot something out of the ordinary.
Good luck!

 

[koleloi]

Thank Brut for your replying. I'm quite a newbie here and I don't understand what is "C clip" sorry, and I'm so scared to dissemble the desk to take pictures.

I must add more information: I guess the problem start to show off from yesterday but I was too negligent though. It's when I finished rebelt the desk then play my tape for hours, I noticed that there's few times the rewind does not work, but when I press the STOP and press the Rewind again, it works - and, one time I had to manually turn the wheel inside the tape door so that the motor start to spin. I was very happy to successful replace the belt and pay NO ATTENTION on that. So now I could assume that the problem had occurred since yesterday. But why was I still able to play my tapes for hours yesterday. I'm lost

 

[Brutus442]

The c clips look like this and will be VERY small.





They look like this and fit atop a bushing or cap securing the spring and keeping it under load.

Try rotating the box and inverting it to see if anything rattles or sounds loose inside the chassis. I had the same thing happen to me with a Candle boombox.

 

[jimmyjimmy19702010]

That spring might come from the plate that sits over the flywheel (one corner of the plate is sometimes spring loaded to enable the setting of the end float of the flywheel).

I suggest that you really should take it to someone who knows what they're doing.
That is not a beginner box to work on. From your other thread, I remember reading that you couldn't even successfully reattach the rear cover!

 

[koleloi]

Thanks for suggestions my friends. Actually there seems to be no chance for me to find a tech repairer for any of my box anywhere. Because that kind of things are very old, they don't have necessary spare parts or component, plus that this type of work consumes alots of time but the fee is very small compared to the time needed. I was once looking for someone that willing to repair my old eggs but was totally disappointed.

Also, I've been getting on this hobby for just a while and didn't acquired any new-friends near my living site. Too bad I'm just moved to this new city few months ago.

I am going to look at the box again as your suggestions.

And Jimmii, maybe you mistaken me with someone else? I remember not face any problem getting the rear cover back

 

[koleloi]

Another observation: I find that this leaf switch in following picture does not move at all when I press all the key. The two "leaf"s never touch each other? May that relevant to the problem?

 

[jimmyjimmy19702010]

Sorry dude, I was getting you confused with another member

Please take another pic of the complete tape deck. I just want to check a few things.

 

[koleloi]

Thank Jim, here are some more, I did not capture it from other side though.

 

[koleloi]

The only thing I did to the tape is removing one screw: in first picture, the screw (not show - the hole at center of the pic) located at the end of the arm bar above the big wheel. I remove it to let the Belt in and out. That's all. Can imagine where the spring went from

 

[jimmyjimmy19702010]

Any chance the spring sat under the arm you removed the screw from?

 

[jimmyjimmy19702010]

As you can see, someone has been in there in the past when they replaced the tape deck motor. Maybe they left the spring out when they did work on it

If the spring didn't come from the one single screw you removed, then I'd be tempted to think it's from another part of the box.

I'd clean all the deck switches etc. Also check with a multi meter for power going to the switches plus deck motor.

It's a pretty simple mechanical deck but it's hard to help with just photos.

 

[koleloi]

Thank Jim,

I also tend to think that the spring is not what cause the trouble because since I finishes rebelting and put the box back, there's no impact was made to the box. It just sit on the table and play normally many hours before the matter occurs. I also don't think that spring belong to the box, because unlike all other spring I can see from the desk, it's short and very hard.

it's just my guess though, may I summarize the problem for you guys to be more clear:

After rebelting, the tape work properly with play, rewind, fastforward, even with tape program sensor. Then after few hours I noticed that the rewind function gets wrong. When I press, it does not spin, but if I use my hand to turn it one round, it start to spin with full speed. That's all for yesterday, and today even the play function is wrong too, I hit play, rewind ... and nothing move, actually the motor is not running anymore.

Hope to hear more from you guys. Thanks.

 

[jimmyjimmy19702010]

Check those switches for function. One of those switches may run power to the motor. Check with a meter at the motor first.

 

[BoomboxLover48]

That spring looks like it is from the from the solenoid plunger (magnetic switch) that activates auto stop.
This can trigger the auto stop mechanism in engaged position. This can shut off the whole deck.
Normally they are springs with less strength. Hard to say how strong that spring is from the pic.

 

[koleloi]

Thank Boomboxlover. It's the fact that my national is not auto stop, but I don't know it's made to be so or that's a fault. Because I see nothing written down on cassette door or anything else telling that this machine is "auto stop".

Also, it's not auto-stoppable since I purchase it. May someone with this box confirm this please?

It's hard to judge from the pic but actually that spring is very hard and strong. It's thick and firmly. I'm gonna check if it belong to the spot you point out.

 

[BoomboxLover48]

If is a hard spring then it is not for that plunger at all. Those springs are much softer ones. May be one of smart members will figure it out.

No worries! It is only a deck. Sooner or later you will figure out what is the issue with it.

I had some that sat on my work bench (in most cases that is our family dining table ) for months.

 

[BoomboxLover48]

By the way I see a screw missing on the pressure plate above the flywheel.

That screw will have this spring inside it under the plate. That is a good possibility.

It is there in the previous picture and now is not.

 

[koleloi]

BL, you words inspire me alot, in fact I'm kind of a patient young man.

As the missing post, it's a picture I get when I replace the belt, that's all I did to the tape desk. So logically the spring could only came from that location. But I can spin the big wheel by hand easily. I guess the problem is electrical not mechanical since all the key, all the parts seem move and work normally, it's just that the motor is not running.

So, if we put the spring away, what are possibilities that make one motor not working? I don't know if the spring is from the desk and account for the problem, or it isn't and it's just coincidence .

I put the spring to the spot you said, but nothing happened |-)

 

[koleloi]

Check those switches for function. One of those switches may run power to the motor. Check with a meter at the motor first.

I don't have that equipment unfortunately . I will call over a shop to lend one.