Will Leaving your batteries in drain them?

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Cpl-Chronic

Member (SA)
Uh, probably not but it's always good of course to remove them when not in use. They can leak, corrode or rust over time.
 

TW5

Member (SA)
You can check with a current meter to see if theres some drain on the batteries
when the unit is off.
 

redbenjoe

I Am Legend
or --if there is any drain at all - just remove ONE ............
or slip in a piece of tape or anything thin --to break the connection
 

Lasonic TRC-920

Moderator
Cpl-Chronic said:
Uh, probably not but it's always good of course to remove them when not in use. They can leak, corrode or rust over time.
Yeah, I've always figured it's best to pull the batteries, and I'm sure many people have gotten a radio with old batteries that leaked or seen the reminence of that. But I have some radio's that I use semi regularly and it's nice to just pull it off the shelf and go.

TW5 said:
You can check with a current meter to see if theres some drain on the batteries
when the unit is off.
Where would I check? On the main board where the power leads connect?

redbenjoe said:
or --if there is any drain at all - just remove ONE ............
or slip in a piece of tape or anything thin --to break the connection
That's a good idea, but still a PIA.

OK, some other semi related questions...

The GE 3-5286A uses a multi position switch OFF / RADIO / AUX instead of a POWER BUTTON. Do these type of multi switches leak power potentially wasting the batteries?

Super Jumbo Alarm Systems. These must use power while they are armed. Anyone use / experience that?
 

trippy1313

Member (SA)
I've had batteries in my 2nd Gen 931 since Oktoberfest (Leavenworth, WA. Not Germany) last year... I'm still using them!!! They just won't die!!!
 

Beosystem10

Member (SA)
Lasonic TRC-920 said:
Where would I check? On the main board where the power leads connect?
Easiest and most accurate way is between the terminal of the last (or first, depending on whither you count from left or right ;-) ) cell of the battery and the spring that makes the contact with it. Using a modern DMM, it doesn't matter which way round the leads go as they have automatic reverse current protection and will simply place a -ive in front of the current figure shewn on the screen.
If it matters, the meter's +ive lead goes to battery -ive (or vise versa, if you're breaking the circuit at the other end of the whole battery).
Alkalines that lie unused for ages are pone to leaking badly, far more so than old fashioned Zinc Carbon cells. Worst brands for this are Philips, Rayovac and Chinese-made Duracells, though the German Duracells and the Duracell Procell ones are far less troublesome for some reason.

I have to confess that the Procells in my Sharp GF555 have been in there since April 2011 :blush: , it's in regular use so I do check the battery from time to time and so far, all cells are showing no swelling or any signs of leakage but it's really far wiser to remove them when they're not needed, just in case a source of contact develops during storage, such as tin whisker migration or weak springs in switches.
 

Lasonic TRC-920

Moderator
Well, It's no surprise (to me at least) that the consensus is TO PULL THE BATTERIES WHEN NOT IN USE!

And I know this...I'm just a bit lazy and like to just "Grab N Go". Of course, I don't want to spend $20 on a fresh set of Duracell's and find out they have trickled away while sitting on the shelf OR WORSE find out they have leaked and damaged a battery compartment.

Thanks guys!
 

Gluecifer

Member (SA)
I think in the short term this doesn't matter. Like a few weeks to a couple of months, any power loss would be negligible at most.

The corrosion and leaking and other bad stuff is a long term issue and by long term I mean years. The batteries we find leaking and corroding in boomboxes are ones that have been there for 20+ years; not a few months.

This is all providing the radio is truly 'off' though. A nice little contraption you can put on a radio to ensure that it is really off is an AC lead. Just cut most of the lead off so only the figure 8 plug remains. Stick this in the power socket of the radio and it will switch it to AC, which of course isn't connected, but will truly disable the battery function. Definitely worth doing on radios that have 'soft' off-modes that power up with cassette deck keys and don't have true 'off' position.. just in case a deck button is engaged accidentally or has some dodgy going on with it internally that seems to flatten batteries when it isn't being operated.

I'm pretty sure rechargeable batteries are a different story and have much quicker constant slow drain, however, but I don't have any scientific theories, just experience from when I've charged a set up then not used them and gone to used them a month or so and they're markedly depleted.



Rock On.
 

Lasonic TRC-920

Moderator
Gluecifer said:
I think in the short term this doesn't matter. Like a few weeks to a couple of months, any power loss would be negligible at most.

The corrosion and leaking and other bad stuff is a long term issue and by long term I mean years. The batteries we find leaking and corroding in boomboxes are ones that have been there for 20+ years; not a few months.

This is all providing the radio is truly 'off' though. A nice little contraption you can put on a radio to ensure that it is really off is an AC lead. Just cut most of the lead off so only the figure 8 plug remains. Stick this in the power socket of the radio and it will switch it to AC, which of course isn't connected, but will truly disable the battery function. Definitely worth doing on radios that have 'soft' off-modes that power up with cassette deck keys and don't have true 'off' position.. just in case a deck button is engaged accidentally or has some dodgy going on with it internally that seems to flatten batteries when it isn't being operated.

I'm pretty sure rechargeable batteries are a different story and have much quicker constant slow drain, however, but I don't have any scientific theories, just experience from when I've charged a set up then not used them and gone to used them a month or so and they're markedly depleted.



Rock On.
Yeah, that all makes sense. The Lasonic's all have AC switches on the back. That works really well.

The TRC-922 I just got, doesn't have the GREEN LED's working, so the other night I accidently left it on. It has a proper POWER BUTTON. But without the Green Power indicators, I forgot. Amazingly the next day, still worked on semi spent batteries!
 

Beosystem10

Member (SA)
Rick, it takes as short a time as a few weeks for an alkaline cell to start leaking if it's no longer totally split new and has lost its virginity (passed current). Philips ones are the worst for this but I wasn't kidding when I said that the Chinese Duracells are prone to leaking.
They're made to the same spec as the German and RoI-made ones and as yet, I've not heard of any reason for [the Chinese factory's] increased proneness to the premature failure of its products but in the case of the Rayovacs that gave trouble with leakage, a UKVR forum member did a post mortem examination on several leaky D cells that a bunch of us sent to him and concluded that the caustic (potassium hydroxide) content in the leaking cells was present in too great a proportion of the content as a whole.
When this is the case, then the caustic component expands to the point where the cell's casing is no longer able to contain it and the process is provoked by - but not exclusively a result of - use, a fact ably demonstrated by leakage at the earliest point in the test samples' lives being found in those which had been used in parallel pairs as LT (valve heater supply) batteries in portables that use 1.5 volt heaters.
In transistor radios, the risk is reduced as their maximum draw would - comparing like with like - be around 0.14-0.3 Amps, but fast forward through time to boomboxes which require far greater currents in many cases than even those valve heaters in Valve and hybrid radios, and leakage is again a very real threat not dictated by age and more, not less likely to be found in cells that had been started but were still capable of providing most of their design capacity. Older cells that leak and which have self discharged purely through old age are rarer since the caustic component of their electrolyte has a short active lifespan and will tend simply to react slowly with one of the other components in a way that effectively comes close to neutralising the component and hence the risk.

It's not even all that rare to find alkaline cells that leak before they've been used if that crucial chemical balance has been compromised in the factory. This photo shows some from a Canadian factory whose BBE dates were some three years into the future at the time when the VR forum member who'd bought these - four weeks earlier - discovered that they'd started leaking.

27223275_198933_raw.jpg
 

Lasonic TRC-920

Moderator
This Thread Just Got Real....

I know D cell's are not created equal, that's for sure. I have all but given up on anything but Copper Top Duracell's or Energizers and rarely buy Energizers only because I tend to buy Duracell's in blocks of 8 and 4, leaving me with 12 batteries when I'm after 10. So I have 2 new ones sitting till next time. So stick with the same brand.

My wife brought home a brick of "Energizer Industrial" D Cell, what a joke! :thumbsdown: I would put those in the case of something that may leak. I used them, but they didn't last long in my QT93.

So, let me get this straight. Batteries in storage are basically "Unactivated"? And then when you flow current through then but installing them end to end in a radio (or whatever) and flip the switch, it activates the chemical process inside? Which then can't be turned off?
 

Beosystem10

Member (SA)
On paper, no, it's not that simple but the analogy is felt by some to be a valid one. By posting the picture of new cells that had leaked in their original, unopened packaging, I was also (in the same post) offering up an alternative to [the notion that these things only leak once they've been used].
I've met with different batteries that support both points of view, and if you consider how the individual cells in a battery behave, then their rôle isn't purely a passive one whether or not they're virginal.
 

Beosystem10

Member (SA)
Good policy, just make sure to avoid the Chinese ones if you can. German ones aren't known for leaking and Canada also makes Duracells only we don't get those ones here so I've no idea whether they have a good rep or not.



Curved ball:

How may cells do you use in a year? Might Lithium Ion battery packs be cheaper in the long run? I'm getting a pair of these for my JVC PC-5 and PC-11, each one is the same size as one of JVC's original battery tubes and the pair can be charged off the job with my universal charger. They cost £42 for the pair but can be recharged up to a claimed 1000 times. Alkaline Procells (exactly the same as the copper topped ones, only the livery is different) are around £8 for a case of ten from eBay and last well but once they're gone, they're gone so potentially ( :blush: ), the Lithium ones can save me loads. Could save you a whole lot of cash too, Chris. ;-)
 

Lasonic TRC-920

Moderator
Beosystem10 said:
Good policy, just make sure to avoid the Chinese ones if you can. German ones aren't known for leaking and Canada also makes Duracells only we don't get those ones here so I've no idea whether they have a good rep or not.



Curved ball:

How may cells do you use in a year? Might Lithium Ion battery packs be cheaper in the long run? I'm getting a pair of these for my JVC PC-5 and PC-11, each one is the same size as one of JVC's original battery tubes and the pair can be charged off the job with my universal charger. They cost £42 for the pair but can be recharged up to a claimed 1000 times. Alkaline Procells (exactly the same as the copper topped ones, only the livery is different) are around £8 for a case of ten from eBay and last well but once they're gone, they're gone so potentially ( :blush: ), the Lithium ones can save me loads. Could save you a whole lot of cash too, Chris. ;-)
I never knew there were different locations of manufacturing. No doubt the Chinese versions would be crap because they will sneak anything through without giving a care. I will look at the package next time I buy.

As for quantity, I was down to about 2 sets of 10 copper tops per year subsidized by a set of 10 rechargeable energizers. But after 5 plus years it looks like the rechargeables have given out. They were only the 2400mAH ones and only were good for around 4-5 hours of play back anyways, but were great for short runs.

But 2 set's of copper tops and those lasted me a good year and I like to BLAST, so not to much to complain about.

But what started this thread is, I bought a set of 12 Duracell's this past weekend for almost $22.00! That's is BS and if the Intersound J1 747 Super Jumbo just eats them alive, I need to figure something else out :yes:
 

Gluecifer

Member (SA)
The batteries I've been using almost daily for 5 years show no sign of leakage or anything untoward (and these have sat in radios for months on in some cases as I have 20), so I'm just going off my own experience, BeoSystem, I'm certainly no authority.

I think everyone should get high quality Ni-MH D's for their radios as the investment can't be beat and the consistency avoids those awful problems with leakage you stated.

I wish Battery Maker was here!



Rock On.
 

Lasonic TRC-920

Moderator
Gluecifer said:
The batteries I've been using almost daily for 5 years show no sign of leakage or anything untoward (and these have sat in radios for months on in some cases as I have 20), so I'm just going off my own experience, BeoSystem, I'm certainly no authority.

I think everyone should get high quality Ni-MH D's for their radios as the investment can't be beat and the consistency avoids those awful problems with leakage you stated.

I wish Battery Maker was here!



Rock On.
Rick, you have some high power Ni-MH's right? 10,000+ mAH. What brand where those again?
 

Beosystem10

Member (SA)
Is Battery Maker a man from Ohio who makes replica HT & LT batteries for valved equipment or is the name just a coincidence? I ask because there's someone on the UK Vintage Radio forum who uses that identity and that's what he does. Brilliantly.
Here's some of his (fully functioning) work in one of my radios, with apologies for the deviation but if we're thinking of the same fella, he's a bloody genius:
4775091565_243d009b47_o.jpg


& yes, there's a boombox in the photo too, my long term resident GF-555, a box whose use of batteries is the most frugal ever and it has a proper on/off switch but also has the ability to work on tape by simply popping one in and pressing a transport function button. I've metered that for leakage and it uses not a single drop of current when it's dormant.
 

Lasonic TRC-920

Moderator
Beosystem10 said:
Is Battery Maker a man from Ohio who makes replica HT & LT batteries for valved equipment or is the name just a coincidence? I ask because there's someone on the UK Vintage Radio forum who uses that identity and that's what he does. Brilliantly.
Here's some of his (fully functioning) work in one of my radios, with apologies for the deviation but if we're thinking of the same fella, he's a bloody genius:
4775091565_243d009b47_o.jpg


& yes, there's a boombox in the photo too, my long term resident GF-555, a box whose use of batteries is the most frugal ever and it has a proper on/off switch but also has the ability to work on tape by simply popping one in and pressing a transport function button. I've metered that for leakage and it uses not a single drop of current when it's dormant.
Back when batteries were part of the unit!
 
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